Well if you're out of the conservative tree house I would be as well. lol
But it's refreshing to see people stand on principle even when it means going against not just our political tribe, but people you admire. God bless you Bethel.
Yes, telos is the key. For all of its positives, conservatism can hum along nicely on the expressive individualism freeway, completely unaware that without the bridge to the Creator on the other side - and specifically the biblical understanding of that Creator -, there's a yawning chasm that will swallow them whole.
Well said, and I think this very conservative downright odious orthodox Anglican agrees.
I will add that the biggest issues today (other than perhaps mass immigration) are free speech and freedom in general and the rule of (Constitutional) law. The Democrats are not only on the wrong side of those issues, they have become a totalitarian party.
And when you have a totalitarian party taking control, I welcome allies that I might disagree on some very important issues. For we can hardly have the freedom to disagree on those issues if the totalitarians win and set up their gulags, virtual and actual. So I welcome my new lib/left allies.
There can be no compromise between Christ and Beelzebub. It is for the sake of people who suffer from same-sex attraction that we must continue unceasingly to oppose gay marriage and related evils, since they are the ones who are harmed most by it. The sinner is always the primary victim of his sin. And even if homosexuality wasn't wrong, surrogacy clearly is. Women exist and are not factories for fulfilling male desire. They are actually human beings, and not tools, and surrogacy, like prostitution, by its very nature refuses to acknowledge this simple moral fact.
But there is even worse! Bari Weiss and many like her claim that abortion is a secondary culture war issue. This is not only wrong, it is the opposite of correct. Abortion is the preeminent issue, before which all other issues are like dust. Every day the altars of Huitzilopochtli are covered in the blood of children, murdered for our convenience, our prosperity, our illusion of autonomy, our false and wicked liberty. The Aztecs had the excuse that if the blood stopped flowing, the sun would cease to revolve in the sky and go out and the world would end in all consuming darkness. What they did would have wrong even if they were right about the nature of the world, for it is wrong to kill one man to save many, but I find it easier to sympathize with them than with us.
I say be careful as we followers of Him look outward and not inward. For every newly culturally accepted abnormality that I can point out, I have 5 within my heart that I too rationalize and accept.
Gods standards ruthlessly target my peccadillos as well and I must agree with Him, repent and target to kill the planks in my own eye.
In that spirit some struggling with sexual sin may too agree to join the battle for their own hearts.
Thank you. In terms of "What would Jesus do," most people find it a hard needle to thread: Be absolutely frank and uncompromising about sin, yet without being mean/nasty/cruel/vicious/etc.
Of course, in the eyes of the world, "being frank and uncompromising about sin" equates to "being mean" in any case, so many people just give up on the effort anyway.
Hear, hear! Thoughtful, fair, and accurate. I'm rarely as vitriolic as Zeisloft, but he's absolutely correct here, it is wicked and it is an abomination.
Here’s something that has struck me and I haven’t heard it mentioned before in regard to gay conservatives and Christianity. The gay part is not the problem. Sin is not an unsolvable problem for Christianity. The problem is that gay conservatives justify their sexual sin by their overall moral perfection.
There is no doubt that men like Douglas Murray and Spencer Klavan are way better than I am in many ways. They have a big positive impact and they communicate good values very well.
This is necessary for gay men in conservative circles, they must be the exemplar in all things. They can’t be brash and offensive like Matt Walsh. But like the rich young ruler, they lack one thing - the willingness to surrender that one point of contention. They only have one sin, but they cannot repent of it. Yet when we seek to call out the speck in their eye, we know they can easily spot the log in ours.
When Christian’s ally themselves with gay conservatives it’s on the basis of that high moral standard - we celebrate them for their keeping of the law. But that is the legalism of the Pharisees. Christians who place their conservatism above their Christianity end up making institutions for the righteous, excluding the sinners and the lost.
Sin is not rational. If you struggle with gluttony and sloth, the problem is not a lack of understanding about the harm and negative consequences. Many arm chair philosophers can type circles around the rest of us and explain the brilliance and wisdom of a disciplined life, yet despite hours of listening to Jordan Peterson, they have an extremely difficult time putting down the ice cream, cleaning their room, and going to the gym.
Similarly we know that same sex attraction is irrational. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the brilliant gay conservatives try to rationalize it. Many of them seem have personal testimonies of frustration over the fact that it seems innate. Perhaps it’s because it’s the only thing they can’t change about themselves, they have an almost superhuman ability to be rational and make good decisions in the other areas of their life.
In the life of someone like Beckett Cook, that disciple seems like a tremendous aid in allowing him to avoid situations that would make life difficult. This is not to downplay the difficulty of making the right choices, but it’s something he (and all disciplined, rational, gay people) have a much greater degree of control over than the poor drug addict who can’t escape the ghetto.
If they would apply their reason, logic, and discipline to the study of political history and theory, they would probably come to the conclusion that (thankfully) we still hold towards pedophilia; the desires of the individual must be subdued for the good of others, and society as a whole. Of course, straight non-Christian conservatives should also come to the same conclusion about no fault divorce, but that’s a much bigger stone to roll back up the hill.
I suspect that we have had an unspoken version of intersectionality for common cause among the Cons for some time. We may well be seeing a call to choose just how far we can go in order to hold alliances with those who share some but not nearly all of our worldview.
additionally, i have always wondered at the fiscal conservative who sought to be socially liberal. Where does that ultimately break, because it seems to me, break it must.
"But they certainly did make demands, including demands on people’s language and people’s understanding of biology" - yes once this was done the trains brake lines were cut and we had said goodbye to Hollywood.
Thank you, Bethel, for helping me to articulate in my own mind what I also believe about many of these issues. I’m thankful that you are using the gifts God has so richly given to you. Stand firm.
I can identify with your position. Regarding standing on the side of truth. My sister asked me to write a birthday card for her boyfriend who will be 75, she is 71. she is planning something ,nothing fancy.
The problem is they practically live together, and neither are Christians. So I will say -I cannot approve of your relationship , but I want you to to know that you are my sister and I love you and my brother ( also not christian ) we are a family ,and that is most important to me. Also I think your boyfriend is a perfect match for you-he truly loves you as you do him . And I understand a person’s desire And need for a partner in life . I hope you understand that I am speaking the truth in Love . Ivan
I hope that she will accept my commitment to Our Savior who died for all , what more can He do! I think it is important to separate our judgement that we recognize as belonging to God, thus enabling us to obey His command to Love .
Good for you. A conservative movement that embraces the sexual revolution is odd, to say the least.
Well if you're out of the conservative tree house I would be as well. lol
But it's refreshing to see people stand on principle even when it means going against not just our political tribe, but people you admire. God bless you Bethel.
Yes, telos is the key. For all of its positives, conservatism can hum along nicely on the expressive individualism freeway, completely unaware that without the bridge to the Creator on the other side - and specifically the biblical understanding of that Creator -, there's a yawning chasm that will swallow them whole.
Bingo
Well said, and I think this very conservative downright odious orthodox Anglican agrees.
I will add that the biggest issues today (other than perhaps mass immigration) are free speech and freedom in general and the rule of (Constitutional) law. The Democrats are not only on the wrong side of those issues, they have become a totalitarian party.
And when you have a totalitarian party taking control, I welcome allies that I might disagree on some very important issues. For we can hardly have the freedom to disagree on those issues if the totalitarians win and set up their gulags, virtual and actual. So I welcome my new lib/left allies.
Great article, as always.
There can be no compromise between Christ and Beelzebub. It is for the sake of people who suffer from same-sex attraction that we must continue unceasingly to oppose gay marriage and related evils, since they are the ones who are harmed most by it. The sinner is always the primary victim of his sin. And even if homosexuality wasn't wrong, surrogacy clearly is. Women exist and are not factories for fulfilling male desire. They are actually human beings, and not tools, and surrogacy, like prostitution, by its very nature refuses to acknowledge this simple moral fact.
But there is even worse! Bari Weiss and many like her claim that abortion is a secondary culture war issue. This is not only wrong, it is the opposite of correct. Abortion is the preeminent issue, before which all other issues are like dust. Every day the altars of Huitzilopochtli are covered in the blood of children, murdered for our convenience, our prosperity, our illusion of autonomy, our false and wicked liberty. The Aztecs had the excuse that if the blood stopped flowing, the sun would cease to revolve in the sky and go out and the world would end in all consuming darkness. What they did would have wrong even if they were right about the nature of the world, for it is wrong to kill one man to save many, but I find it easier to sympathize with them than with us.
I say be careful as we followers of Him look outward and not inward. For every newly culturally accepted abnormality that I can point out, I have 5 within my heart that I too rationalize and accept.
Gods standards ruthlessly target my peccadillos as well and I must agree with Him, repent and target to kill the planks in my own eye.
In that spirit some struggling with sexual sin may too agree to join the battle for their own hearts.
Thank you. In terms of "What would Jesus do," most people find it a hard needle to thread: Be absolutely frank and uncompromising about sin, yet without being mean/nasty/cruel/vicious/etc.
Of course, in the eyes of the world, "being frank and uncompromising about sin" equates to "being mean" in any case, so many people just give up on the effort anyway.
Well argued, as always. The link between gay ideology and trans ideology is clear.
Hear, hear! Thoughtful, fair, and accurate. I'm rarely as vitriolic as Zeisloft, but he's absolutely correct here, it is wicked and it is an abomination.
Bless you Bethel. Is it perhaps the most formidable Christian challenge, down through time? How to speak the truth in love.
Here’s something that has struck me and I haven’t heard it mentioned before in regard to gay conservatives and Christianity. The gay part is not the problem. Sin is not an unsolvable problem for Christianity. The problem is that gay conservatives justify their sexual sin by their overall moral perfection.
There is no doubt that men like Douglas Murray and Spencer Klavan are way better than I am in many ways. They have a big positive impact and they communicate good values very well.
This is necessary for gay men in conservative circles, they must be the exemplar in all things. They can’t be brash and offensive like Matt Walsh. But like the rich young ruler, they lack one thing - the willingness to surrender that one point of contention. They only have one sin, but they cannot repent of it. Yet when we seek to call out the speck in their eye, we know they can easily spot the log in ours.
When Christian’s ally themselves with gay conservatives it’s on the basis of that high moral standard - we celebrate them for their keeping of the law. But that is the legalism of the Pharisees. Christians who place their conservatism above their Christianity end up making institutions for the righteous, excluding the sinners and the lost.
Sin is not rational. If you struggle with gluttony and sloth, the problem is not a lack of understanding about the harm and negative consequences. Many arm chair philosophers can type circles around the rest of us and explain the brilliance and wisdom of a disciplined life, yet despite hours of listening to Jordan Peterson, they have an extremely difficult time putting down the ice cream, cleaning their room, and going to the gym.
Similarly we know that same sex attraction is irrational. I don’t think I’ve ever heard the brilliant gay conservatives try to rationalize it. Many of them seem have personal testimonies of frustration over the fact that it seems innate. Perhaps it’s because it’s the only thing they can’t change about themselves, they have an almost superhuman ability to be rational and make good decisions in the other areas of their life.
In the life of someone like Beckett Cook, that disciple seems like a tremendous aid in allowing him to avoid situations that would make life difficult. This is not to downplay the difficulty of making the right choices, but it’s something he (and all disciplined, rational, gay people) have a much greater degree of control over than the poor drug addict who can’t escape the ghetto.
If they would apply their reason, logic, and discipline to the study of political history and theory, they would probably come to the conclusion that (thankfully) we still hold towards pedophilia; the desires of the individual must be subdued for the good of others, and society as a whole. Of course, straight non-Christian conservatives should also come to the same conclusion about no fault divorce, but that’s a much bigger stone to roll back up the hill.
Lots of probing thoughts here. Thanks so much for reading and adding them.
I suspect that we have had an unspoken version of intersectionality for common cause among the Cons for some time. We may well be seeing a call to choose just how far we can go in order to hold alliances with those who share some but not nearly all of our worldview.
additionally, i have always wondered at the fiscal conservative who sought to be socially liberal. Where does that ultimately break, because it seems to me, break it must.
A great piece. I love your work in this area Bethel. I think Stephen McAlpine may have beaten me to the praise here: https://stephenmcalpine.com/dont-think-about-pink-elephants-when-gay-conservatives-go-rogue-on-orthodox-christianity/
"But they certainly did make demands, including demands on people’s language and people’s understanding of biology" - yes once this was done the trains brake lines were cut and we had said goodbye to Hollywood.
Thanks Andrew! I had missed that blog and just thanked Stephen for writing it. Thank you for your enthusiastic readership as well.
Thank you, Bethel, for helping me to articulate in my own mind what I also believe about many of these issues. I’m thankful that you are using the gifts God has so richly given to you. Stand firm.
Thanks Amy!
This was fantastic. Thank you, Bethel
I can identify with your position. Regarding standing on the side of truth. My sister asked me to write a birthday card for her boyfriend who will be 75, she is 71. she is planning something ,nothing fancy.
The problem is they practically live together, and neither are Christians. So I will say -I cannot approve of your relationship , but I want you to to know that you are my sister and I love you and my brother ( also not christian ) we are a family ,and that is most important to me. Also I think your boyfriend is a perfect match for you-he truly loves you as you do him . And I understand a person’s desire And need for a partner in life . I hope you understand that I am speaking the truth in Love . Ivan
I hope that she will accept my commitment to Our Savior who died for all , what more can He do! I think it is important to separate our judgement that we recognize as belonging to God, thus enabling us to obey His command to Love .